‘Did you know Camp that 80% of the people in jail in Ontario haven’t been charged, much less convicted of any crime? In Canada the number of pre-trial detentions is around 50%. Whatever happened to the notion of innocent until proven guilty?’ As of March 31, 2023, the average number of people in Canadian jails was about 35’000 which includes about 500 of them under 18.’

‘You must be watching Carney who proposes to overhaul the bail system and asks for longer sentences for organized theft and repeat offenders. In addition, he offers the RCMP an additional thousand personnel and $ 1.8-billion in new funding.’

‘Yes, and not one word said about the thousands of innocent people in detention awaiting trial or bail hearings, the clogged-up courts and understaffed legal system,’ I said. 

‘Yes, the legal and judicial system is in dire need of fixing. The liberals are offering a watered-down version of the conservatives’ proposal who would love nothing more than to put jay walkers and civil demonstrators in jail.’

‘Nobody mentions that there has been a sharp drop in Canada’s crime rate over the past three decades – from a peak of 10’000 per 100’000 population in 1991 to about half, 5’000 in 2021, according to Stats Canada.’

‘Meanwhile the big thieves like the banks and insurance companies, crypto kings and politicians keep stealing from you and me with impunity while thousands of poor people linger in pre-trial hell just because they are too poor to raise bail. There are even cases in which the original charge is dropped but the accused still faces prosecution for bail violations related to an offence they were never convicted of.’

‘Do we know how much it costs to keep somebody in jail?’ Camp asked

‘I looked it up,’ I said. ‘The average annual cost of incarcerating a person in a Canadian federal prison is about $ 150’000. For maximum security prisoners the cost is about $ 175’000 while community supervision costs are much lower, around $35,000 annually. Those costs don’t include the prosecution, nor the jail infrastructure.’

‘What would you do if you were in charge?’ Camp asked, putting me on the spot.

‘I don’t have a simple answer. Of course, it’s complicated but it just doesn’t seem right that over half of all people in jail are neither convicted nor charged with any crime. It doesn’t help that all jails are overcrowded, up to 150% over capacity which leads to negative consequences such as increased violence, double-bunking, stress on staff, and a higher use of force. The issue is worsened by the fact that many inmates are still awaiting trial.’

‘In the US, only the president can pardon convicted criminals as he just did with George Santos, a liar and thief extraordinaire but here in Canada the prime minister has no such powers.  Good thing too. Instead of offering clemency to convicted criminals we should find a way to fast track those languishing in jail and waiting for due process.’

‘Hear, hear,’ Camp said emptying his pint. I followed suit. Vicky of course was at the ready with two refills. ‘Keeping out of trouble,’ she said with a wink at me.

‘Keeping out of jail at all cost,’ Camp replied.